Det on high revs - Page 3

dellaruse · 10-11-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richf

thats what i am going for

Who sells them?

SPEARMINT · 10-11-2006, 05:35 PM

Fuel pump? Got mine from Nengun.

dellaruse · 10-11-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spearmint

Fuel pump? Got mine from Nengun.

Will this one do the job?

http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/6

SPEARMINT · 10-11-2006, 11:51 PM

Yup, the very same.

**Bill Oddie** · 10-11-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spearmint

Yes, please do.

So, pros and cons of before the plenum or before the compressor section? What would they be?

http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/intake/WI.htm

Richf · 11-11-2006, 10:28 AM

TFS

What kind of intake temps do you see and how do you measure them???

SPEARMINT · 11-11-2006, 03:04 PM

It's a good site that TFS, I viewed it a few times when I had my Calibra Turbo. Interesting stuff this water injection lark.

**Bill Oddie** · 12-11-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richf

TFS

What kind of intake temps do you see and how do you measure them???

i use an intake temp gauge, just a wire that pokes under the plenium hose..

i have not seen temps above 28 degrees, car has a very thick trust intercooler and 50/50 water/dehrydrated ethanol mix (have said methanol in the past but same thing)

i use it for det reduction and temp reduction at the moment but if you have the balls to go lean and advance the ignition there is power to be collected, water has a far better in cylinder cooling effect then fuel so the idea is to replace the unburnt fuel with water....12.5/1-14.0/1 at full boost, just make sure your jets dont block lol

TBH there isnt anyone i have heard of that totally understands exactly how all this works, please ignore my comments

Richf · 12-11-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.F.S.

i use an intake temp gauge, just a wire that pokes under the plenium hose..

i have not seen temps above 28 degrees, car has a very thick trust intercooler and 50/50 water/dehrydrated ethanol mix (have said methanol in the past but same thing)

i use it for det reduction and temp reduction at the moment but if you have the balls to go lean and advance the ignition there is power to be collected, water has a far better in cylinder cooling effect then fuel so the idea is to replace the unburnt fuel with water....12.5/1-14.0/1 at full boost, just make sure your jets dont block lol

TBH there isnt anyone i have heard of that totally understands exactly how all this works, please ignore my comments

i wont bother with water injection , my views have been well publiscised

Monitoring intake temps is worthwhile though

**Bill Oddie** · 12-11-2006, 01:40 PM

lol well i was mapping with mark shead once and his comment was "i have never seen so much advance on an ignition map", i guess this was due to the octane increase of the methanol and det reduction from the water

it was a free 30bhp or so increase in power

right now (as i have said) im getting away with a jap chip at 21 degrees advance and using tesco 99 octane fuel on 0.99bar with no det at all, this isnt possible without the water or using very expensive fuel addatives

**Bruce-m** · 12-11-2006, 03:27 PM

when simon norris mapped my pulsar he was well amazed how well the water injection got rid of all det,
he hated me having nos on it but was more than happy for me to have the water injection he often even reckonmends it.
He did sum testing and set it up so i had a slight bit of det in top 4th and 5th,
switch on the water injection and all would go even if he added another 4-5 degrees, still nothing.
I used it tho for a safety measure i would switch it on for hot days or if i couldnt get good fuel, but if you run to much water it will hold the car back i found i had to go down in jet sizes also if i ran the nos at the same time i had to advance the timing up 3 degrees otherwise there was to much fluid in the cyclinders.

**Bill Oddie** · 13-11-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce-m

when simon norris mapped my pulsar he was well amazed how well the water injection got rid of all det,
he hated me having nos on it but was more than happy for me to have the water injection he often even reckonmends it.
He did sum testing and set it up so i had a slight bit of det in top 4th and 5th,
switch on the water injection and all would go even if he added another 4-5 degrees, still nothing.
I used it tho for a safety measure i would switch it on for hot days or if i couldnt get good fuel, but if you run to much water it will hold the car back i found i had to go down in jet sizes also if i ran the nos at the same time i had to advance the timing up 3 degrees otherwise there was to much fluid in the cyclinders.

ahhh, someone who speaks from experaince

very rare on here mate!

Richf · 13-11-2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.F.S.

ahhh, someone who speaks from experaince

very rare on here mate!

My experience was spannering on Big Chiefs car , we disabled the water injection and he ran 6mph faster in the 1/4

Some say it works others say it doesnt but imo its too much trouble to rely upon it for a daily driver, this weekend my car was reading a high of 17 knock recorded and that goes up to 27-30 ish with nitrous but some of that is likely noise and not knock

**Bill Oddie** · 13-11-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richf

My experience was spannering on Big Chiefs car , we disabled the water injection and he ran 6mph faster in the 1/4

By the sounds of it you were using water as well as using fuel to cool the cylinder so the engine is going to scrub power!, if you even read the link you would see that you need to go lean and advance for extra power otherwise there is little point running WI

water is 5 times better at picking heat up from the cylinder, the extra fuel that is injected into the cylinder over stoich on a turbo car is only there to remove heat and reduce det, we replace the fuel with a far better coolant and as a result AFR drops and power increases......any mixture over stoich results in the excess fuel being blown out of the exhaust

as i have said i use WI because without it my car will det, if like your friend i had a UK map that didnt det then i wouldnt fit WI unless i intended to advance the ignition slightly, the methanol gives me an increase in octane exactly when i need it too.....triggered at 0.61bar

its a bit like someone saying they wouldnt use nitrous because they once used a kit that was jetted far too rich and it never worked, we know its the person playing with the kit that is the problem not the kit itself, some people wont even take advice from the people who designed the kits anyway so maybe this is falling on deaf ears lol

Water -- Oxygen content 0% (ignoring dissolved oxygen) Latent heat of Vaporization 2259 KJ/kg . K = 539.6 BTU/lb . F

Methanol -- Oxygen content 49.9% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 1099 KJ/Kg . K = 262.6 BTU/lb . F

Ethanol ----- Oxygen content 34.7% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 854 KJ/kg . K = 204.1 BTU/lb . F

Isopropyl --C3H8O--- Oxygen content 26.66% by wt, latent heat of vaporization 666 KJ/kg . K = 159.24 BTU/lb . F

Petrol -- About 586-628 KJ/kg . K ---- 140 -150 BTU/lb . F depending on fuel blend

Nitrous Oxide -- 376 kJ/kg

Richf · 13-11-2006, 10:01 AM

See this is one of my issues

Running a motor lean with lots of ignition and relying on WI to correct the balance isnt a safe way to make hp imo. If the WI fails you lose your motor, fine for a race car but not convinced its needed on a road car. HP just isnt that difficult to make on a Skyline

I've used methanol as well as a fuel and thats horrible, corrosive stuff again wouldnt entertain using it on a road car.

I guess as you say it makes sense for you due to your map, you are a bit stuck unless your fork out for a power fc or suchlike but for an extra 30hp I can simply remove some timing and add more nitrous