[matsamune]

Hi guys,

My stock turbo just blew (I think there's little ceramic turbine chunks in my cat right now) and I am considering a power upgrade on a 1996 R33 Skyline (manual trans with the RB25DET)

I am torn between options for ECU, fuel injectors, EBC etc.

At the moment it seems that the most economical way to go about getting the most horsepower for my money would be to:
- high-flow the turbo (HyperGear turbos in Australia)
- get a Nistune-d Z32 ECU and a Z32 AFM
or
- get a R33 RB25DET Apexi Power FC + OLED hand controller
- pick up some second hand S15 SR20DET 480cc injectors
- Cheap HDI EBC/Gizzmo EBC

Mods I currently have worth mentioning:
- Turnflow intercooler
- Pod filter with heatshield airbox
- 3" exhaust from the turbo
- Walbro 255Lph in-tank fuel pump
- 53mm Koyo Aluminium radiator
- Splitfire Super Direct Ignition Coilpacks
- NGK Iridium spark plugs
- Turbosmart BOV (recirculated)

- Stock intercooler and intake piping

How much power can I expect out of this ECU/injector/turbo upgrade? Very roughly on RON 98 pump fuel?

P.S. If Power FC is the way to go, is it worth going the D'Jetro (MAP and IAT sensor) way so I can vent my BOV to atmosphere and vent my cam breathers to atmosphere without stuffing up the AFM sensor which is used by the Nistuned ECU and the L'Jetro (MAF)?

EDIT: I have just been advised by Nengun that the PowerFC (both D'Jetro and L'Jetro) with the new OLED controllers are actually built specifically by Apexi for the ECR33, and not modded BCNR33 ones.

 

[X_Y_Z]

Im sure that the powerfc is only available in l-jetro for the gtst, to get the d-jetro off the gtr to work you'll need to modify the wiring but you'll loose the vct, better off going with a standalone ecu if you want to loose the afm.

Don't really understand the point in getting secondhand s15 injectors? You'll only get 4?

Will be difficult to give power figures without the turbo specs?

 

[matsamune]

Im sure that the powerfc is only available in l-jetro for the gtst, to get the d-jetro off the gtr to work you'll need to modify the wiring but you'll loose the vct, better off going with a standalone ecu if you want to loose the afm.

Don't really understand the point in getting secondhand s15 injectors? You'll only get 4?

Will be difficult to give power figures without the turbo specs?

Sorry if you missed my edit - Apexi now make L'Jetro and D'Jetro versions of the Power FC specifically for the ECR33 RB25DET, as confirmed by Dan from Nengun. To quote:

Apexi stopped making the PFC and H/C for the ECR33 RB25DET some years ago so outside of Apexi we had one made under our name and sold it for about 1 year. This was a BCNR33 re maped for a ECR33 RB25DET. But we dont sell this anymore because Apexi started re making New Version Models for the ECR33 RB25DET and these are no way shape or form re mapped BCNR33 PFC's

So the information on our site is current and to date we do sell the De Jetro PFC and H/C and the L'Jetro versions

As for the S15 SR20DET 480cc injectors, there's a set of 6 going on eBay for AUD$290, flow tested and cleaned.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191350349053?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
They are a direct bolt-on fit for the non-NEO RB25DETs.

As for highflowing the turbo, here is the link with details and dyno sheets as to what is done to the stock turbo when it's been sent in: Nissan Rb25det Turbocharger Standard high flow service

For the lazy:

This is a service that high flows factory OEM Rb25det turbochargers.

Same service can also be carried out on Rb20det engines.

High flowed turbocharger will be fitted with a brand new core with larger steel made wheels. Then having factory compressor and turbine housings machined to suit.

Braided oil feeding line is required for all profiles. It is included in price listed

The turn around time required is roughly 3 working days, invoice will be sent upon the completion of the job, payment is required prior dispatch.

High flowing profiles:

R33 standard high flow: 450HP

R34 Standard high flow: 480HP

How does this service work: Job has to be either dropped off in person or delivered to our Po.Box.​

Condition of the donor turbo: Donor turbo can be blown, with broken fins, or damaged wheels. Cracked housings depending on the extend of damage has to be repaired prior profiling. Clients will be informed if repairing work is required, quotes will be given before additional work taking places.

Key benefit:
360 degrees Thrust bearing
Inconel steel wheel and shaft
Suitable for High Boost applications​

​Product Goal:
High Responds, High Torque.
Long life time.
OEM Bolton

Warranty: 12 Month unlimited KM warranty comes with all of our turbochargers. Warranty voids if failure caused from Installation faults, Oil starvation, Operational faults or object damages.​

 

[SPEEDR33PER]

Hi guys,

My stock turbo just blew (I think there's little ceramic turbine chunks in my cat right now) and I am considering a power upgrade on a 1996 R33 Skyline (manual trans with the RB25DET)



Mods I currently have worth mentioning:
- Turnflow intercooler
- Pod filter with heatshield airbox
- 3" exhaust from the turbo
- Walbro 255Lph in-tank fuel pump
- 53mm Koyo Aluminium radiator
- Splitfire Super Direct Ignition Coilpack
- NGK Iridium spark plugs
- Turbosmart BOV (recirculated)

- Stock intercooler and intake piping

How much power can I expect out of this ECU/injector/turbo upgrade? Very roughly on RON 98 pump fuel?

is a turbflow a fmic?
pod filter will do
exhaust will do
fuel pump will do
rad will do
coilpacks will do
plugs?????there not a type of modification
bov is good
so you have 2 intercoolers fitted to your car with 2 types of pipework???
injectors seem low as you will never be able to go higher than around 450-480 and even then you will be close to the maximum on the injectors with little to no room spare so 550s at minimum to be safe.

ecu and the rest is all down to what budget you have and what you want from the car lone term,i notice however you have mentioned nothing about the engine????these engines are very well known for breaking ringlands so i would strongly recommend pulling the engine and at the very least fitting forged pistons so you can drive it from day 1

 

[X_Y_Z]

Sorry if you missed my edit - Apexi now make L'Jetro and D'Jetro versions of the Power FC specifically for the ECR33 RB25DET, as confirmed by Dan from Nengun. [/url]

Ahh misread your edit sorry, how much are they going for new or have you found a secondhand one?

 

[matsamune]

is a turbflow a fmic?
pod filter will do
exhaust will do
fuel pump will do
rad will do
coilpacks will do
plugs?????there not a type of modification
bov is good
so you have 2 intercoolers fitted to your car with 2 types of pipework???
injectors seem low as you will never be able to go higher than around 450-480 and even then you will be close to the maximum on the injectors with little to no room spare so 550s at minimum to be safe.

ecu and the rest is all down to what budget you have and what you want from the car lone term,i notice however you have mentioned nothing about the engine????these engines are very well known for breaking ringlands so i would strongly recommend pulling the engine and at the very least fitting forged pistons so you can drive it from day 1

A turnflow intercooler is one that looks like this http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/ssxricho/Silver R33 GTST/car_pic.jpg - it reuses the factory intercooler holes and piping - the previous owner had this installed.

A bit of phrasing problems on my end - I meant stock intercooler piping, and stock intake piping.

The engine is stock and unopened, and I believe my budget at the moment restricts it to being kept that way. I guess my question is how much horsepower can I expect my upgrading the ECU, injectors to 480cc and a high flowed stock turbo? Keeping in mind the "mods" that I have and it's a stock intake manifold and stock exhaust manifold etc.

 

[matsamune]

Ahh misread your edit sorry, how much are they going for new or have you found a secondhand one?

Sorry I've been ninja-editing a lot lately!

They are going for about $1450 delivered from Nengun at the moment.

 

[X_Y_Z]

Meant the powerfc mate

 

[matsamune]

Meant the powerfc mate

Whoops! AUD$1450 delivered - here you go!

APEXi - Power FC D-Jetro Free T shirt Offer - Nengun Performance

4E14BN33 Kit
Nissan - Skyline - ER34 (RB25DET) - D-Jetro Kit - 1x Power FC 4E14BN33, 1x Map Sensor 499-X001, 1x Map Sensor Harness 49C-A004, 1x Air Temp Sensor Harness 415-XA03, 1x Air Temp Sensor N3A1 18 845.

 

[X_Y_Z]

Do you have to pay any import duties/fee's in oz? If not that works out pretty cheap for what it is

 

[matsamune]

Do you have to pay any import duties/fee's in oz? If not that works out pretty cheap for what it is

I don't think you do, especially for an item that small but you never know.

Back to the original question though, how much power can I expect out of this setup?

 

[chineze]

Either ECU will do, but if you're going for the Apexi Power FC, I would choose the D-Jetro one.
As for the Hypergear Highflow, they are rated at 450hp.
I'd guess on 98 octane you should be able to get somewhere between 360-400whp at @1.2-1.5 bar.
But yeah not sure what condition your engine is in and how long it would last.

And for injectors, look for bigger ones.
At 400hp you'd be running a high duty cycle on those s15 ones, maybe even maxing them out.

Furthermore a proper fmic and piping is recommended, Hypergear themselves have tested several of those returnflow intercoolers and found them to be restrictive and have a bigger pressure loss than a normal fmic.

 

[X_Y_Z]

The info on the turbo says it will flow 450hp but your injectors will max out before that, like speedr33per said, at 85-90% duty they'd be able to do a bit over 400hp

 

[Tricky-Ricky]

I would want to limit power to about 400-420BHP on those injectors.

 

[matsamune]

Either ECU will do, but if you're going for the Apexi Power FC, I would choose the D-Jetro one.
As for the Hypergear Highflow, they are rated at 450hp.
I'd guess on 98 octane you should be able to get somewhere between 360-400whp at @1.2-1.5 bar.
But yeah not sure what condition your engine is in and how long it would last.

And for injectors, look for bigger ones.
At 400hp you'd be running a high duty cycle on those s15 ones, maybe even maxing them out.

Furthermore a proper fmic and piping is recommended, Hypergear themselves have tested several of those returnflow intercoolers and found them to be restrictive and have a bigger pressure loss than a normal fmic.

Thank you very much for the reply! I'll look into different injectors - is there a problem going too big of injectors?

Also there has never been a solid reply as to WHY going from MAF(L'Jetro) to MAP(D'Jetro) is better - the only reasons I can think of is the ability to vent your BOV to atmosphere and install a catch can from your rocker cover breathers that is vented to atmosphere (instead of back into your intake piping).

 

[matsamune]

The info on the turbo says it will flow 450hp but your injectors will max out before that, like speedr33per said, at 85-90% duty they'd be able to do a bit over 400hp

Cheers mate, is there a problem with going too big with injectors?

 

[X_Y_Z]

No point going much bigger than 550's just because the engine wont take much more than what that turbo can offer without opening it up

 

[SPEEDR33PER]

too big on injectors and the fuel wont atomise correctly but the ones your looking at will max out too soon so 550s are the ideal replacements

your biggest issue is budget you say you have no funds to allow a rebuild yet you will spend a sizeable amount to get near 400bhp,if you do that and then the engine fails your screwed and can not drive it BUT if you spend the money on the engine first then you can still drive it daily and when you bolt the upgrades to it you can STILL drive it daily.

too many peaple sell or break there skylines because they spend a **** load on getting more power and when the ringlands break they have no more money to fix the engine so break the full car.

do the groundwork first get the engine solid then upgrade
and i had a japspeed fmic fitted that uses standard pipework and had no issues or restrictions and for your power it should be fine

 

[matsamune]

No point going much bigger than 550's just because the engine wont take much more than what that turbo can offer without opening it up

Cool beans - there's 600cc drop-in injectors really cheap in my area: Genuine Jecs 660cc Nissan Skyline Turbo RB25 R33 RB25DET Injectors Drift Drag | eBay so I'll go with them. Just want to make sure there's no problems with idle etc when going too big of an injector.

 

[matsamune]

too big on injectors and the fuel wont atomise correctly but the ones your looking at will max out too soon so 550s are the ideal replacements

your biggest issue is budget you say you have no funds to allow a rebuild yet you will spend a sizeable amount to get near 400bhp,if you do that and then the engine fails your screwed and can not drive it BUT if you spend the money on the engine first then you can still drive it daily and when you bolt the upgrades to it you can STILL drive it daily.

too many peaple sell or break there skylines because they spend a **** load on getting more power and when the ringlands break they have no more money to fix the engine so break the full car.

do the groundwork first get the engine solid then upgrade
and i had a japspeed fmic fitted that uses standard pipework and had no issues or restrictions and for your power it should be fine

Do you reckon 660cc ones will result in incorrect fuel atomization? Genuine Jecs 660cc Nissan Skyline Turbo RB25 R33 RB25DET Injectors Drift Drag | eBay I can get them for $400 as they are just down the road.

Good to hear that the turnflow intercoolers didn't cause a problem for you - The folks at Hypergear turbos have dyno (EDIT: pressure) sheets that show turnflow intercoolers result in a pressure drop. To quote:

5. I've seen many people use return flow intercoolers for convenience of installations. We've tested few and found most of them carry a massive pressure drop in between the cores. Here is a comparison using a Jap branded return flow cooler kit that resulted 4.5psi pressure drop at 20psi, pressure graph before and after cooler is here. I personally recommend proper front mount intercoolers with core size of 600x300x75mm.

As for the budget issue, my stock turbo is blown at the moment so I really can't drive it around - and it'd be such a waste of money to bolt on some second hand stock turbo now, only to have it high flowed in the near future for upgrades.

EDIT: Apologies, not dyno graphs - pressure graphs.

EDIT2: Also, this car is driven about once or twice a month to get washed and driven around for things to circulate - would this help at all with the issue of blowing my engine up with mods without strengthening the internals?