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Discussion Starter #1
Ok,

So I have been doing my bed time reading and have read most of the technical/buyerguides and all that kinda stuff.
I suppose I should let you know I am researching for an R33 GTR and want to hit a sensible 450BHP (ish) which will go for ever. (Like I said in my welcome note I am still a good year away from buying and just preparing).

I am looking for a few more pointers if y'all would be kind enuff :) (Please)

When looking at doing the remaps for upgrades are the chips better or a re-map better. (I know the insurance has an impact if you chip but...). Which makes the whole thing more reliable?

I see there are various opotions on the Boost controllers etc? Obviously a stand alone makes sense but is there a proven way forwards on this (again reliability is a key aspect here)

Brand awarness! I see lots of brands when I look thro' the pages. Is there a best or are some companies better at certain things than others. (HKS/Greedy?Apexi) Looking at the whole thing as above so I will need interC/brakes/etc... If a company is renown could you let me know :)

Is water injection something I should look at or is the intercooler system etc..... sufficient? Is Aquamist a suitable product if needed??

Whilst I understand Blow off/Dumpvalves vs Recirc.... I have seen companies start to combine the 2 (Forge for example). Where do they fit in this mix???

Finally I am sure it is here I just haven't found it yet so what if any mods do i need to make to the gearbox/engine internals to run 450-ish? What are they good for as std??? (Fuel pump/injectors/mounts a given)

One final subjective question. Is it better to buy (grey imports included) and modify or buy from one here (for example.... but again grey imports included) with mods already done???

Thanks for your help in advance and sorry for so many questions
 

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big intercooler, big induction, fuel pump, oil pump, full exhaust, clutch, flywheel, dump valve and a re-map to about 1.0bar uprate all these and you'll have a pretty lively road car. or at least a healthy start. id buy an import they tend not to be too trashed and have lower milage once you get the car checked properly you should be ok
 

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You wont need to change the intercooler for 450hp, its good for at least 500, possibly 6.
The most popular ecu's are the Apexi PowerFC and the HKS Fcon, the HKS is a finer map (32x32 grid i think rather than 25x25) but not as many people can map it. I'm guessing here but it think the power fc uses the cars ECU for the basic settings and the Fcon is a full standalone ECU.
As per Rod Bell, the apexi avcr boost controller works well with the PowerFC.
Gearbox and engine internals are reputedly (sp.) good for 500hp but it depends what kind of life they have had. Just keep upping the power until they go pop, then go for forgies.:devil:

If i were you i'd go for a car thats been modified to stage one as its quite a big cost, thats already in the country, has a known history (i.e. someone on here)

If i am talking b0ll0cks here, someone please correct me!
Hope this helps mate.
:smoker:
 

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I'm guessing here but it think the power fc uses the cars ECU for the basic settings and the Fcon is a full standalone ECU.
other way round mate, power fc is the full stand alone, the hks fcon is a piggy back fuel computer but as you said you can get a finer map but not very many tuners know about them or want to touch them!
 

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Nine times out of ten you can get a better deal with an import, better condition and possibly a few parts already upgraded, the only problem with them is you dont know any of the history an also the insurence companies like to slap a few more pennies on, just because they can!

All the brands you are naming are all the top brands really, just read through what other people are putting on there cars an you will soon catch on whats good an whats not, you can normally tell by the price aswel, you get what you pay for!

Just keep reading an reading mate!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Guys thanks so far really appreciate it! I know there is loadsa information. Infact little bit of an overoad at the moment! ;) but I will stick with it!

Whilst I understand the mechanics of it all. It is good to get you guys specialist knowledge. Please feeel free to point me in the right direction. I am sure I am asking all the standard questions here so sorry in advance. There is just so much information on here it is a little struggle to read/find so much. You know what it is like.... Made the decision why can't I have it now :D


Thanks again....
 

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They are both standalone but the HKS uses a piggyback fuel computer interface as per the article below.

HKS F-Con V Pro

&

Apexi Power FC

The necessity for optimum control over a vehicle's engine is heightened as
a car's engine is modified and transformed beyond intentions and parameters set by manufacturers
and controlled by the stock Engine Control Unit. At clubman levels, where the investments into engine
modification and aftermarket upgraded engine components are high, the particular need for
precise control is paramount into both longetivity of the engine, and ability for the user to
gain full advantage of the investment he/she has made.
The requirements of an aftermarket ECU are that it must enable the user to adjust and alter the fuelling of the engine,
the ignition timing of the engine, control over auxiliary engine functions, to record and monitor the engine's activity,
to enable interaction between the user and the ECU, and incorporate safety systems and fail safes to ensure against
engine damage.

The following is a comparative analysis of each of the aftermarket ECUs I have chosen to study.

ECM Type
(A description)

HKS F-Con V Pro:

A fully featured stand alone engine management system incorporating a "piggy-back" fuel computer interface.

- Utilises Factory ECU

Apexi Power FC:

A complete stand alone total engine management system

- Replaces Factory ECU

Resolution of Adjustability
(What levels can user adjust main fuel/ignition points to)

HKS F-Con V Pro:

32x32 Fuelling & Ignition Point Adjustment
User defined selection range

Apexi Power FC:

20x20 Fuelling & Ignition Point Adjustment
5x5 map sections

Ability to control drive by wire?

HKS F-Con V Pro : Yes

Apexi Power FC: No

Engine Monitoring System
(What can the ECM monitor?)

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Complete total engine monitoring via software

- Parameter Limts / Warning Functions user defined for any variable.

- Datalogging Function enables user to record and re-run data accumulated through all of car's sensors over defined period of time.

Apexi Power FC.

- 10 monitored parameters displayed via commander
- Engine RPM
- Ignition Timing
- Vehicle Speed
- Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
- Injector Duty Cycle
- Boost
- Knocking Level
- Battery Voltage
- Intake Air Temp
- Water Temp


Functions

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Total Control over Car's Electronic Systems.

- Main Functions include:

- Ability to store 4 different fuel/ignition/boost maps
- Fuelling Mapping
- Ignition Mapping
- Boost Mapping
- Injection Format
- Additional Injector Control
- Nitrous Oxide Injection Control
- Launch Control
- Multiple User Defined Rev Limits
- User defined activation levels via pressure, speed, revs, temperature
- Acceleration Enrichment Correction
- Cranking Fuel Injection Control
- Water temp / fuel injection control
- Anti-Lag Control
- Leading & Trailing Ignition Control
- Water Injection Control
- Boost Ramp Control
- Auto A/F Ratio Compensator


Apexi Power FC

- Fuelling Mapping
- Ignition Mapping
- Boost Mapping (with seperate boost control unit)
- user Defined Rev Limit
- Acceleration Enrichment Correction
- Cranking Fuel Injection Control
- Water temp / fuel injection control
- VTEC Control (on Honda Vehicles only)
- Leading & Trailing Ignition Control (on some vehicles only)

Injection Format?
(How can the ECM Control different injection formats?)

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Batch, Sequential or Staged

Apexi Power FC

- Sequential Only.

Datalogging Function?

HKS F-Con V Pro.
- Yes

Apexi Power FC.
- No

User Interface
(How does the user access the ECM?)

HKS F-Con V Pro:
Through Software

Apexi Power FC:
Through Commander

Safety?
(How does ECM ensure engine safety and longetivity)

HKS F-Con V Pro
- Auto A/F Ratio Compensator
F-Con will calibrate entire engine mapping to suit user defined correct A/f Ratio, and will never let
engine run detrimentally lean (e.g in a case of a blocked injector)

- Warning Levels pre defined by user

- Limp Mode Activation pre defined by user

- Cut Off Activation of any ECU controlled electrical system, defined by user

- Use of aftermarket sensors to ensure more accurate readings.

- Datalogging.

- Active Parameter Display, Warning, Peak and Hold and Recording via software

Apexi Power FC

- Peak and Hold Function via Commander

- Warning Level Activation via C.E.L

Market Price in Japan

HKS F-Con V Pro : ~130,000 Yen = ~?650

Apexi Power FC : ~80,000 Yen = ~?400


Conclusion.

If you consider the requirements for an aftermarket ECM, as described in the section identifying
the aim and its role within the car, it must be decided how closely the functions offered by the
ECM meet the requirements. Levels of Engine adjustability, Levels of Car Electronic Systems Control, Safety Measures
and base functions are all to be considered in a solution to the need for total engine and electrics management, and in thus,
the superiority of the HKS F-Con V Pro ECM is clearly indicated. The F-Con's major disadvantage to the Apexi Power FC is limited to
its interface to the user, in that the interface requirements of the F-Con are a computer and computer based software which although portable to an extent,
does not meet the interface simplicity of the Apexi Power FC's handy, In-car
control device named " the Commander ".

The Ultimate System?
Neither!

For market leading Aftermarket Engine Management Systems, offering the greatest degree of engine and electronics
control, leading-edge technology and design quality, neither system is able to match the Engine Management Systems offered
by Motec. The M400,M600 or M800 currently offer the greatest levels of control and adjustment available to any
electronic management system currently on the market, and represents the pinnacle of aftermarket EMS.
Interface remains as in the case of the HKS F-Con, in that the Motec EMS is configured via a computer interface.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great thread and information.

So am I correct that the PC is only required when altering the interface, as part of the install/set up you can use the PC on both the Mocal and the HKS system. Once sorted the PC is unplugged and then, if you like the EPROM has been blown and is set until such time as you reconnect and alter? If I had a small PC in the car could I alter the settings as I go or does the system require a reset?
Apexi - I also assume that the comander sat in the car cabin is an instant alter so you can run like a granmother etc when the kids are in and then at the push of the button have the full dragstip experience at the traffic lights (as it were)? without the need to reset?

I will have to do a search on the Mocal ones to see what extras they offer I think.

Thanks & doesn't it sound expensive in Yen :D
 

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1) a remappable ecu is better than a chip and replaces the ecu and can be mapped over and over again.depends on budget but powerfc's and good but for more money hks f con pro is better and so is the motec

2)if you want full control a electric boost controller is the one and a greddy or apexi are the choice to go for at the moment unless you want to spend loads to the top flight hks unit

3)there is some good stuff out there for cheap but you need to look at what you are buying and also be aware the some stuff is over priced and some stupid but thats skyline tax for you.stuff like intercooler the standard one is fine but buy a good brand inducton kit not a ebay joby!brakes spend as much as you can and get a good brand

4)water injecton is designed to combat dett but at your stage its not needed and to be fair everyone has diffrent views on it but i think its a load of junk.

5)dumpvalves can always cause problems and the two types normally work but i likethe standard one or remove completely.up to you be you stand a chance of stalling but not everyone gets it and the rec/dump ones do help to resolve this.

6) standard internals and gearbox are fine on 450bhp if its a gtr but clutch/fuel pump/injectors will need replacing but its part of the tunning plane when going for 450bhp so if you are doing it dyi the do some research on here if not call the tunners on here and get a idea what they change.
 

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yep but most the skyline boys deal in the hks and no one really maps there own car!
hks is a good system just a bit expensive
 
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