Skyline Owners Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
New reformations in Holland, I'm outta here

Wow...I honestly can't believe what our government just decided upon to pay for the debt we lost to greece.

a short recap:

VAT up by 2%
extra taxes (before VAT) on alcohol and petrol, atm it's alreay 130% taxes on petrol
no more traveling expenses
10-25% extra health insurance costs
nominal rent prices up by 1% + 2,5% inflation
Mortgages have to be completely paid off within 30 years, or they won't be accepted

I hear Australia has nice weather, and it can't be much worse than this so my plans of immigrations have just come a few leaps closer...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,962 Posts
Hell mate that doesn't sound good at all
 

·
Everybody knows that the bird is the word
Joined
·
9,198 Posts
I hear Australia has nice weather, and it can't be much worse than this so my plans of immigrations have just come a few leaps closer...
We are only a 3 hour flight east of Aussie... and our country is better 'cos it's not full of Australians :D

I can see a lot of people leaving your country.... isn't the government supposed to look after it's people, not rape them for all they've got?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
They're planning on even more reformations because some ^@%@%#@#$ promised us we'd get the 14billion(!!!) we HAD to lend to Greece back.

Now they've admitted what any retarded blind man saw last year that we won't get a dime back so now we have to pay for they're incompetence. Which means instead of cutting costs (JSF/ war in Afghanistan/ tax returns on houses over € 1mln) they somehow think it's a good idea to rob the working man by adding a 3% tax increase on pretty much everything.
And to think I though that raising the anual university fees by 250% was the worst they could do...

Thankfully I just finished uni last year so I should have a fairly good chance to emigrate and get the f*ck outta here
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,045 Posts
We are only a 3 hour flight east of Aussie... and our country is better 'cos it's not full of Australians :D

I can see a lot of people leaving your country.... isn't the government supposed to look after it's people, not rape them for all they've got?!
Meh fush and chups

Hear hang on an IOU from the IMF is as good as cash what do they mean you can't have it back!!!

France better be careful however I think it's the catalyst to out the euro you watch.

France then Germany and then Grease
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hear hang on an IOU from the IMF is as good as cash what do they mean you can't have it back!!!
IMF and our loans are 2 separate things.
About 2 months ago Greece said that either we'd have to take a 75% loss on the loans or they'd just instate a law which basically said:

"We're not giving back any money. Why? because f*ck you! that's why"

Funny thing is that when it all started our ministry of finance said that if we didn't help Greece it would cost us 8billion, but helping wouldn't cost taxpayers anything...now that they decided to help it cost us 14+ billion, which is coincidentally exactly the amount of money they plan to take from the taxpayers with these reformations :Uzi:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,968 Posts
I think we are all in the same slowly sinking boat, just that some countries are having to bail a little harder than other, but we are all bound for the bottom.
I just hope that the government have to eat some of the Shite they are making us swallow, and we can take the con out of the conservatives!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
This isnt the first tiem Greece has done this, and nor will it be the last. When it joined the Euro it was the worst thing ever because historically it hasnt had access to cheap borrowing (because of its failure to pay it back time after time), but when it joined the Euro everyone got the same rate, and Greece laughed in our faces as it racked up debt. It could have done one of two things..

A) get the country up to speed with the rest of the world, build a better future for everyone, become a responsible country, or option B) Have a big **** off party.

Guess what they did.

Now we pay, because again, history repeats itself in that we bail them out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
Regarding the whole Greece topic. The way I see it, like in any credit agreement. The debtor has the responsability to repay the creditor however, the creditor also has a responsability to make sure the debtor can afford to repay. If, as you say, Greece has a track record of not repaying its debt, which is not true, why was the country given more credit by the international banks? You will find that it's not as simple as you make it or want to see it. The source of all Euro related issues is far from being solely the Greek debt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Greece is on its sixth default mate...

Heres an extract from a recent publication from a certain high street bank:

Defaulting on debt has been a normal state of affairs for Greece since it gained independence in 1829. The current default is its sixth. Greece has spent half of its post-independence life in default. Only four countries on the planet have defaulted for longer.

Countries tend to default because their political systems encourage it. Greece tried to break from its history by joining the European Community and the euro, moves designed to transform its institutions and to bind it to a compelling form of economic discipline. Neither worked.

Cheap credit
The euro was created in 1999 and Greece joined in 2001. Before the euro, countries paid different rates of interest when they borrowed. Lending to Germany was a safe bet. There was a very good chance that you would receive in full and on time all you were due. So, Germany paid low rates of interest.

Riskier countries paid more. In the mid-1990s Greece was paying roughly double Germany’s rate. Yet, by the mid-2000s once Greece was in the euro, you could scarcely seperate the two.

This presented a huge incentive to borrow. The question was what to do with it: invest for growth or have a party? Investment, coupled with economic reform would have been the right answer for Greece. Even today it languishes at 100 out of 183 countries in the World Bank’s ‘Ease of doing business index’, squeezed between Yemen and Papua New Guinea.

Yet, the answer was to party, or at least to spend more on public services than it could afford. Loss of competitiveness and exchange rate flexibility Euro membership delivered cheap credit with one hand and imposed an exchange rate straitjacket with the other. Greece had long lived beyond its means. Its pre-euro ‘Get Out of Jail Free-ish Card’ had been a flexible currency. In 1980, the drachma bought US$8. On the eve of euro entry it bought less than one.

Cheap money led to inflation. Between 1999 and 2010, the wage cost of producing €1 of output increased by 4 per cent in Germany but by more than 40 per cent in Greece. Now inside the euro and unable to devalue, Greece dramatically lost competitiveness, severely limiting a possible source of growth.

Greece’s final problem has been the international community’s medicine. Greece needs to reduce its ratio of debt to income and to boost its productivity. The EU and the IMF have prescribed fiscal austerity and economic reform. Outside a currency union, austerity brings a lower exchange rate and interest rates. Inside the euro, the exchange rate doesn’t budge, although there could be some interest rate benefit.

With austerity, growth plummets. Greece is now in its fourth year of deep recession. High and rising debts are balancing on ever-decreasing incomes. The benefits of reforms that will make markets more flexible are years away.

The solution?
Greece probably needs to renege on even more debt. That will lift a burden from its finances, creating a more favourable economic and political space for radical reform. But the cost will be even more loss of democratic control over its own affairs.

The alternative is to leave the euro, with all the calamities for the world’s banking system that could entail. Yet that would be all too consistent with the nation’s history.



So.. whilst i agree with you on agreements and repaying debt... its national debt isnt like a credit card with a credit agreement.. unfortunately ! :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,045 Posts
Greece? wait till you hear about the Italians problem. I think that makes this look like a piss in the ocean

PS I was being sarcastic about the IOU
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top